In the article "Living without Numbers" or Time by Rafaela von Bredow, it discusses how The Piraha people really do not have any form of written language, history, words or subordinate clauses. In the first part the author goes into how Daniel Everett, a linguist, went to Brazil to study the Piraha. Who at first was not accepted and whom they tried to kill, but since he was able to understand enough of their language from eavesdropping on them he was able to escape an attack, but since he was intrigued by the language he had to go back and learn more. So he went back and spent a total of 7 years with the Piraha and since he was not sure about what he had learned that it took him nearly 30 years until he published his findings. Which were very controversial. Since it lead to the debate about how homo sapiens managed to develop vocal communication.
Since the Piraha do not have the same language skills as others do. They do not use any words associated with time, conjugations, or colors. In addition they do not use subordinate clauses like other languages do. such as von Bredow's example, " When I am finished eating, I would like to speak with you." the Piragas say, "I finish eating, I speak with you." They also have no number system or uses of numbers. And when a psycho-linguist, Peter Gordon came to visit the Piraha he tried to see if he could figure out if they had the ability to determine exact numbers. Which they did not but it still amazed people as to how they communicated. Years before this study Everett tried to teach them but had no luck doing so.
Yet later on Everett came up with and explanation for the Piraha idiom and said that the language was created by the culture, and said that the core of their culture is "live here and now" Which goes into the fact that the Piraha do not have myths or history or any real thoughts on how their lives came to be and when Everett asked them that they simply responded, "Everything is the same,things always are." Which shows that the Priaha are not really curious about their lives that they just want to live it.
Which led the scientists to debate whether Piraha are capable of recursion and according to Everett the only reason it is not part of their culture is that it is forbidden. The only issue with this is that since no one else can understand the Piraha as well as Everett no one can confirm his observations.
This was rather interesting to read, especially seeing that the Piranha have no use of any type of number system. Yet, I feel that this "live here and now" concept is an interesting one. People often say that they like to live in the here and now, yet often times they do not. However, the case with the Piranha people is exactly to the point of living in the here and now, because they have no history of which they have recorded to look back upon. It seems that these people are truly living in the "here and now" rather than some who claim to live in it, yet often times focus on the past or look to the future. I think it is also important to note the reliability or credibility of the author can be called into question, as was pointed out in the summary. Overall, it is interesting to learn of a people who most would see as being backwards or odd.
ReplyDeleteThis article was really interesting. I don't understand what they would do when it comes to expressing numbers. They seem like simple people that just want to live their lives "here and now" not focused on the more technical things in life. It would be interesting to see how they live and the differences they use in order to communicate in a recognizable manner. It would also be interesting to see one of the Piragas to enter our world of language and see their views of our language, if they would reject or accept it.
ReplyDeleteWow, this article really put language into a new perspective for me. As an English major it is interesting to view and to try and understand another method of communication vastly different than my own. It is interesting to contemplate how philosophy and religion influence and define our language and the language of others. By living in the "here and now" the Piraha speak in that context. A similar example would be native American Indians who had no concept of ownership or possessions.
ReplyDeleteThis article was a fascinating addition to the history of linguistic agility and sophistication! The Piraha people have no concept of time, like the residents of early civilizations. With the growth and advancement of technology and the extinction of communal living, the necessity to keep track of time increased. As the notion of time became important to the daily lives of humans, it needed to be defined through words and subordinate clauses. Suddenly, words such as “then” and “when” and “past” and “present” not only appeared in the language but were constructed to fit a reminiscence present. These peoples speak differently from us not because of the lack the language ability or sophistication, but because they have not encountered situations that deem these words as necessary to communication. If a cell phone did not exist or was never used in a country, the word that describes the device would be unnecessary, so is it with time in the Piraha culture. If this author is credible, then his discoveries would be not be novel but simply a modern day addition to the history of concept and language development.
ReplyDeleteThe Piraha seem very primitive. It is interesting because even ancient civilizations kept track of their history, philosophized, and created ways to track time. I'm really interested in knowing how Everett figured out their language from eavesdropping. It seems like an unlikely story. It also seems unlikely that the Piraha would let him back in their village and explain their culture to him after being hostile towards him the first time they came in contact with him. Also why would Everett go back to a place where the people want to kill him. There's a lot that doesn't make sense to me so I'm not sure that I'm going to believe what Everett or Velasco have to say about the Piraha.
ReplyDeleteI suppose everyone has a different way of living, but I believe there is a difference between "living in the here and now" and recording your peoples' past. The Piraha have no record of their history, but what if there is something they'll need to know from their past and they simply can't remember it? It's an interesting contribution to the world of linguistics, but I don't understand how people would just want to forget.
ReplyDeleteThis is a very interesting culture and dialect. It is really hard to understand and imagine a culture that does not incorporate the past, but only focuses on the here and now. The fact that without certain things that we have in English linguistics communication can still occur is hard to relate to and understand as well. No number system, no past knowledge of anything seems a little harsh. No wonder they tried to attack him, he probably found it very hard to relate to their culture.
ReplyDeleteI think it's interesting that these people really don't care about anything but what is happening to them at that moment. I think it's really cool that their language isn't known by anyone else, besides that Everett guy. It's nice to know that the human race hasn't invaded every culture and tried to bring it into the modern day. What isn't broken, doesn't need fixing. If these people are living just fine with the way their culture is then why should we try to teach them a number system or anything else that isn't in their language. I think it's interesting that only one other person besides the Piraha know the language, but I do think it's interesting that he just learned the language by eavesdropping. He must have eavesdropped for a long time to learn what he did of the language.
ReplyDeleteI thought this article was very interesting. It's amazing to me that these people think that everything stays the same all the time and also how they live in the moment. The fact that the Piraha are the only people who know this language is very interesting. It's so easy for people to learn other languages so it's kind of neat to know that some cultures have a language known only to them.
ReplyDeleteWow! I can’t believe a civilization not having a number system. I understand their concept of living the “now” and “today”, but even you live day-by-day basis, how can they not have a number system? What someone steals something from them and they three of whatever was stolen, how will they communicate how many things were stolen from them? So what if someone dies? Will they pretend as that person never existed because he/she technically doesn’t exist today? Overall this article is intriguing.
ReplyDeleteI found this article very insightful. I find it very hard to believe The Piraha people do not have any form of written language, history, words or subordinate clauses. I think this article was very interesting.
ReplyDeleteI found this article very interesting. The idea that there is a language that only one group of people knows is astonishing. I also find there way of thinking interesting. I too have the same question as Maria above. Do they pretend as if something didn't happen if it has changed? I enjoyed the article.
ReplyDeleteI found this article a bit different. After I read the piece, I was wondering if they have some kind of punishment for questioning why things are like the way they are. When it came to if they had some kind of number system, made me think do they have another system that is like numbers but they don't see it as numbers. That's really interesting about how they use the concept "here and now" and not ask why.
ReplyDeleteIt is amazing to think how many different languages there are in the world. This Pirah language seems like it would be so difficult to use since it has no numbers or clauses like almost every other language; but to the people who speak it it is common.
ReplyDeleteAs was stated earlier, I also think that this is an interesting topic, because there is actually a group of people that has not language or number system, and if you think about it, thats what we spent the bulk of our younger years doing. But not that I think about it, since they don't have a number system, does that mean they don't have any form of currency.
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